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Our Dialogue On climate Change; NOT Proven?

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Jul 3 in Science & Technology ⚡ by Virginia (4,092 points)

Other Tink posted a talk a while back by Nobel laureate Freeman Dyson, questioning global warming...which I had accepted as proven. However, I had a difficult time finding the corroborating science that to me was convincing. 

Well, I finally DID locate that convincing science, but still had questions about the data; because I know from experience you can misuse data (often unwittingly) to fit an agenda. 

THEN I found a source saying that of the 97% of scientists who agree on global warming, their unanimity is not as complete as it seems...that thousands of e-mails were coming in to IPCC*, questioning how the data was processed. 

THAT was enough for me; I now have doubts we can consider global warming as proven. 

I am not even sure our scientific methodology is capable of addressing such a question. I still have ONLY A HUNCH that global warming IS truly happening, but now doubt we should focus on that so intensively. 

It does seem clear that we ARE capable of rendering the planet unfit for human habitation, and imo, reversing that is where our efforts should go...a subtle tweak, but more realistic?

* * *

*The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) is a scientific and intergovernmental body under the auspices of the United Nations,set up at the request of member governments, dedicated to the task of providing the world with an objective, scientific view of climate change and its political and economic impacts. It was first established in 1988 by two United Nations organizations... (per Wikipedia)

3 Answers

Korvo Jul 4

It is my opinion, from things I have read and seen, that climate change is happening. However, what is causing this climate change?  Is it the CO2 that we are producing, or is it a natural thing, that we cannot affect? 

Virginia Korvo Jul 4

It is a powerful point you make, Korvo!

TheOtherTink Jul 4

I have not yet seen a plausible explanation for the following graph:

image

You will note that the temperature went up about 0.5 degC between 1910 and 1943, when the world's population and CO2 increases were only about 1/4 what the are now. Then the temperature stayed essentially flat for 33 years, although CO2 increases had approximately doubled during that time period. Then, staring about 1976, there was another 0.5 degC increase over about 33 years, about the same rate of temperature increase as 1910-1943, even though the rate of CO2 increase was about 4 times greater during 1976-2009.

Unanswered quetsions:

1. Why was the 1910-1943 temperature increase as fast as that of 1976-2009?

2. Why no temperature increase during 1943-1976?


Those are two very telling questions, O'Tink...

And from what (little) I have looked, I am first of all wondering if we have the ability to even collect accurate data (I mean - how do you measure the temp of a planet, to within a degree accuracy?), and then I am doubting our ability to interpret it...controlling for other factors...

But assuming the data IS correct, then your questions would need to be accounted for before any conclusions were taken.

Until I see differently, I am guessing we (meaning our scientific methodology) are out of our depth here. That is, human-caused global warming may be happening (as is my GUESS [only]), but we don't have the ability to discern accurately yea or nay.

@Virginia,

Another irony of the CO2 debate is that the ONLY current technology that could replace fossil fuels is nuclear energy. That's something Al Gore will NEVER say out loud.  "Hell no, we won't glow! "

O'Tink, I will just tell you that I appreciate VERY much your original post on this Q, the POV from Freeman Dyson...global warming was another of those "buzz issues" I had bought into hook line and sinker, just because I tend to trust the (so-called) "authorities"...

Well now I think my "belief" in global warming is just that...a belief...nothing more than an educated guess...so it's a whole new perspective now, a very different approach, when there is very likely NO reliable scientific "proof."

Yes, Virginia, I think it's beyond doubt that the Earth has been on a warming trend for centuries, since the "little ice age", but whether this is caused primarily by human CO2 emissions has not been well established scientifically, as Dyson and other notable scientists have pointed out.

<3

Marianne Jul 4

There is no unanimity about climate change, global warming or climate oscillations or variations - but most will agree that we are facing very critical, environmental problems, shortages and disasters.

What's reallly problematic is the wide-spread pollution of air, water and soil, the destruction or depletion of various ecosystems and, with them, of natural, vital resources. And the loss of protecting ecosystems and natural balance makes our planet more vulnerable to climatic variations and natural disasters.


There have been various studies, research, testing and measuring campaigns, projects, programmes and initiatives - but findings, estimations and statistics vary, depending also on conflicting "interests" and theories, experiences and estimations:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_oscillation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_pattern

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_pollution

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_pollution

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soil_contamination

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_pollution

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4651756/Shocking-interactive-maps-Earth-s-plastic-pollution.html


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_degradation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deforestation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desertification

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_sprawl

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_overpopulation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overconsumption

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiversity_loss

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jan/15/rate-of-environmental-degradation-puts-life-on-earth-at-risk-say-scientists

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/oct/13/marine-food-chains-at-risk-of-collapse-extensive-study-of-worlds-oceans-reveals


Virginia Marianne Jul 4

Marianne, I find that you and I often agree closely on difficult issues...as we certainly do here. And that is interesting because we are geographically so far-flung...all our lives on different continents...

And then, O'Tink will often bring a thoughtful and valuable counterpoint to keep us on our toes!

Marianne Marianne Jul 4

Lol, Virginia - and I like these chats and talks, filled with humour, laughs and emotions.

There is something very familiar - yes, we have quite a lot in common.

:)<3:)<3

Virginia Marianne Jul 5

:)  <3

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