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Do you think it is child abuse if you refuse to get them vaccinated?

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Aug 6 in Arts & Humanities by Korvo (496 points)

I see that Italy, France, and Germany are taking measures to insure (fine the parents, refuse preschool or school etc.) that children are vaccinated for certain diseases, and I believe Australia already has some laws in effect. Is it fair to children to leave them vulnerable to polio, measles, whooping cough etc. ??

5 Answers

TheOtherTink Aug 6

No, it isn't fair to leave kids vulnerable to preventable diseases, especially polio, but I wish they would get to the bottom of what is causing so much autism and behavioral  problems nowadays, so that the vaccination conspiracy theories can finally be put to bed.

Korvo TheOtherTink Aug 6

I have to agree, as I have seen what polio can do.  And as to autism, I wish they would make up their minds as to the definition of autism. They keep expanding it to the point if a child is slightly hyperactive, they say it is autism.

Rooster Aug 6

I know I had all kinds of them when I was a kid and when I went overseas but I think the formulation must be different now to be causing autism and such. I think they need to go back to the drawing board and really study these vaccinations to see what the problem may be. But yes, the kids need those vaccinations as some of these diseases can be deadly or debilitating.

Korvo Rooster Aug 6

thank you foe your input. It might be good to see if one vaccination is reacting with another to cause problems.

Virginia Aug 6

Hi Korvo,

As you and others have already covered, the question is not really clear-cut...other considerations are involved. 

One friend of mine chose NOT to vaccinate her twin boys, just because of the risks, and because her physician could treat the diseases holistically. The twins DID get diphtheria, I think it was, and they recovered just fine with the treatment. However, my friend was frightened by what her youngsters had endured; and when I asked her if she would make the same decision over again, she told me that no, in hindsight she would choose to vaccinate.

So it is not an easy question.

Korvo Virginia Aug 6

It is never easy when your children are at risk.

Virginia Virginia Aug 6

You posted a timely and relevant question, Korvo!

@ Virginia,

I would have been scared too. Mortality for diphtheria (even with treatment) is 5-10%, and higher for those under 5 or over 40.

"The case-fatality rate for diphtheria has changed very little during the last 50 years. The overall case-fatality rate for diphtheria is 5%–10%, with higher death rates (up to 20%) among persons younger than 5 and older than 40 years of age. Before there was treatment for diphtheria, the disease was fatal in up to half of cases."

https://www.cdc.gov/diphtheria/clinicians.html

Virginia Virginia Aug 7

O'Tink, my friend obtained holistic treatment for her little ones, so no one knows (scientifically) but the survival rate MAY be higher...however she was still just terrified by the experience. I trust holistic medicine in many ways, it helped me when nothing else could...but here? The babies? I also would just cave. 

Well, Virginia, I must admit I haven't had much experience with alternative medicine, except for when my Mom went to a chiropractor for back pain.  The back manipulations helped somewhat, but only temporarily, rather like the usual back exercises you can do at home.  Then the chiropractor started prescribing pills, pea-vine extract (which didn't do anything) and some kind of pill extract from cow brains??!!???  She did NOT take the cow pills, and stopped going to the chiropractor; she didn't want to get mad cow disease! :O

Oh, and I had a friend who went for Chinese medicine treatment. A bunch of suction cups up and down each side of her spine, to draw out the bad qi.  Didn't do a damn thing, except leave bruises for about a week. :O

Virginia Virginia Aug 9

Hmmm...not too encouraging, O'Tink!

Marianne Aug 8

Indeed, regarding certain diseases, vaccination is really necessary, as very young children are especially vulnerable.

Vaccinations are not only protecting those who are vaccinated, but also their "surroundings" and the people around them.

They should rather look into risks with vaccine combinations, components and compounds, conservation agents, etc., known side effects and/or incompatibilities with other medical treatments (in course), or with particular health aspects or allergies in individuals.


As to autism caused by vaccines, there are many hypotheses:

https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/48/4/456/284219/Vaccines-and-Autism-A-Tale-of-Shifting-Hypotheses

https://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/do-vaccines-cause-autism


and environmental influences might represent a greater risk factor:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/autism-risk-linked-to-particulate-air-pollution/

https://www.autismspeaks.org/what-autism/learn-more-autism/what-causes-autism

https://www.autismspeaks.org/node/109631


Virginia Marianne Aug 9

Marianne, at one time I thought the vaccine-autism connection was compelling...now? I just don't know...

Marianne Marianne Aug 9

Virginia, I think that, like with medication and therapies, general values cannot apply to particular conditions and individuals, or more vulnerable groups. It occurs often that what's beneficial for "A" can be dangerous for "B". Furthermore, there are also long-term effects or additional "side effects", which cannot (or could not) be detected at once.


Virginia Marianne Aug 9

Marianne, what you mention is something I actually learned from homeopathic medicine; that you cannot (successfully) treat just the DISEASE. This is a primary mistake of modern medicine, because for any true healing you must treat the whole person.

Marianne Marianne Aug 10

Yes, indeed; they need to treat the very roots; fighting symptoms is merely providing a temporary relief in emergency situations. And the very roots for the so-called modern diseases are caused by unbearable living conditions in irrational fast profit or "dead-end" systems, prejudices and superstitions, polluted or toxic surroundings, or by the lack of vital resources and/or education.


Virginia Marianne Aug 10

@ Marianne, Yes! :'(

Marianne Marianne Aug 13

Yes, Virginia ... :(


katherine24 Aug 9

I think it should always be the parents choice, or else we are handing the welfare of our children over to the state and that leads to socialist communism. 

Parents who are not vaccinating their children obviously have fears regarding the vaccination and until these are addressed, there will unfortunately be children dying because they have not been vaccinated, just like there are parents wondering that if they'd not had their child vaccinated whether they would not have been affected by autism. 

There are ingredients in vaccinations that are still worrying for some, such as mercury, aluminium, formaldehyde, etc, and until these fears are dealt with we will continue to have this problem.  I had whooping cough as a child we had no vaccinations then.  Polio and TB is making a come back in the UK due to the mass influx of unvaccinated immigrants, and cultural differences such as spitting on the street.

Virginia katherine24 Aug 10

You have posted some relevant comments, Katherine...when I was tiny, in the early 1950's, immunization for school age children was available, but not compulsory. And a few parents then, for religious reasons I think, did decline the vaccinations.

However, rural communities like mine were very stable then, not much influx of new people, and ... is it called something like "herd immunity"...? Anyway, if almost all are vaccinated then that itself is a barrier which protects the very few who are not...and 'herd immunity' is clearly not happening now in the UK...

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