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Are the "historians" at it again?

+3 votes
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Feb 26 in News & Informations ⌨ by TheOtherTink (20,470 points)

Not long ago, we heard about a Russian "historian" who discovered that 7 million people starved to death in the US during the Great Depression.

Now some Spanish "historians" seem to have found the Holy Grail.  They didn't explain how Jesus and his unwealthy followers came to possess such a richly-jeweled goblet. 

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https://nypost.com/2014/03/31/historians-claim-to-have-recovered-fabled-holy-grail/

4 Answers

Marianne Feb 26

Yes, Marianne, perhaps Joseph of Arimathea gave it to them.

But in fairness to the "historians," I learned from another article that the cup that is on display is really one cup inside another. The original is supposed to be the plain black onyx one; the outer jeweled cup was added later for display purposes.

But the plain cup that Parsifal used seems to have been considerably larger.  :ermm:

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Marianne Marianne Feb 26

Lol, T(h)ink, how on earth did you find this old stamp.

Yes, it is possible that they received presents, but I also doubt that the chalice was such a big one, or that it was "jewelled up" ...



I found it when I googled images for Parsifal and Grail.  It's a semi-postal stamp, or Wohlfahrtsmarke, where only part of the price of the stamp could be used for postage (40 pf in this case).  The other 35 pf was used for charity work (of whom I suspect the Parteigenossen were the favored recipients).

Marianne Marianne Feb 27

Lol, indeed, there were along with special stamps for collectors, such post stamp charity campaigns in various countries, which were, sometimes, misused to raise funds for not so charitable organisations or parties.




Rooster Feb 26

I agree with Marianne. Such an ornate bejeweled cup in Jesus time? I'm sorry but I don't believe it at all. No, from my scany knowledge of the subject? I believe it would be more like the cup in Monty Python's or Indiana Jones movies. It's just to fancy to fit the times. A simple golden cup of sorts.



Kninjanin Feb 26

They are archeologists if they search old things or adventurists who search sensations.

Marianne Kninjanin Feb 27

:D:)

Virginia Feb 27

Oh I could open that article with my old computer, YAY NY Post! I think the tone of the whole article was set very well by its first sentence..."Spanish historians say they have discovered what Monty Python could not —"

Oh and  btw, O'Tink, I have some wonderful authenticated relics I can sell you, an ACTUAL toe bone of St. Peter, and there's also the sponge somebody gave Jesus some vinegar while he was on the cross, and a lock of hair from Mary Magdalene, plus a pebble from inside the tomb where Christ was buried, an'...an'...well, how much money you got? :D

Marianne Virginia Feb 27

:D:)

Oooh... a lock of Mary Magdalene's hair?  Was she really a redhead?  I'd love to see proof, but um... I'm kinda short on cash right now.  Can I buy the lock on credit?  :ermm: :angel: :) :D

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Virginia Virginia Feb 28

Nah, Tink, I only deal in cash (and run)...no money, no relics for you...;)

Marianne Virginia Feb 28

Lol, T(h)ink, and Holy Mary was often painted as a blond maid and mother, and the same occurred with Jesus, Joseph, the Apostles, etc.

But the great European painters were adapting their characters and scenes into their environment, clothing style and often into their times - with a few exceptions of course, if referring, for instance, to the "Black Madonna".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madonna_(art)

Marianne Virginia Feb 28

Lol, Virginia, there's a big market for and display of relics:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relics_associated_with_Jesus


Virginia Virginia Feb 28

Yes Marianne, ;) and I see no reason why me and thee should not get in on the haul, don't you think? So Sister Tink can just name whatever relic she wants, and we will get it for her, um for a price cash on the barrelhead of course! :D

Virginia Virginia Feb 28

Oh Marianne, I myself have a very special love for the Black Madonna...and, it is said that Lech Walesa, the Polish Solidarity hero, always wears her image on his lapel...Our Lady of Czestochowa...see what you think, is that her on his lapel?

image

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Marianne Virginia Feb 28

Lol, Virginia, "cash on the barrelhead"?

This expression is really colourful, even if that means that you want immediate cash.

:D:D:D


Virginia Virginia Feb 28

ha ha, Marianne I was thinking of you when I wrote that expression, "cash-on-the-barrelhead"...I don't know its origin but yes, no doubt colorful...:D

But that IS what it means, cash only and cash right now; no credit, no foolin' just the MONNNNEY!!!

Marianne Virginia Feb 28

Lol, Virginia, that is what I thought and checked, and I could not find much info about its origin.

On the other hand, the British "cash on the nail" seems to take its sources from the old Romans.

In French, they refer also to the nail, actually "payer rubis sur ongle", which stands now for "to pay cash", but had, formerly, another meaning and probably another origin, i.e. pay "till spending your last coin" (another explanation refers to drinking events, in which they honoured beloved absent people by pouring the last drop on the fingernail and licking it; and this last drop of red wine on the nail must have looked like a ruby - this expression seems to have been coined in the early 17th century). But with the time, the meaning evolved.

:):D:D




Marianne Virginia Feb 28

Lol, Virginia, I suppose that it is the Madonna.

By the way, I might disagree regarding "on the haul" - unless there is a real emergency situation.

:angel::D:D

Virginia Virginia Feb 28

Oh Marianne, I just love the "rubis sur ongle," isn't it marvelous? I used Google translate and it did show "ruby on fingernail"...ima do that someday when I am drinking red wine and thinking about friends who are either absent or maybe deceased...<3

Hey, wait a minute, Virginia!   I just thought of a way to raise the cash for Mary Magdalene's lock.

I can make some relics myself from old chicken bones and sell them as St. Paul's fingertips or whatever. How does that sound to you?


Virginia Virginia Feb 28

Well O'Tink, ordinarily I would be impressed with your innovation and creativity, but well in this case I am guessing you are prolly NOT the first one to come up with this kind of fundraiser...;)  :P  :D  <3

Quite true, Virginia, but hey, there's a new sucker born every minute, right?  :angel: :) :D

Oh, btw, we were once in a church in Quebec, and a nun there opened the front of a box containing a human skull.  She said it was the skull of General Montcalm.

I made sure to appear impressed, and firmly squelched the urge to ask her if she also had General Wolfe's skull on the premises.  :ermm:

Virginia Virginia Feb 28

Well O'Tink! Your mention of Montcalm and Wolfe...just sent me into Wikipedia, to review the Battle of the Plains of Abraham...not since maybe 7th grade (which would have been 1957)!

That history is much more significant to me now, sixty-some years on...very poignant history in that belligerence of centuries between England and France...not to mention the formation of Canada as a nation...and even though I am chuckling :P, yes I must admire your (admirable) restraint on these topics of much devotion...:sideways:  :blink:

One remarkable thing about warfare in those days is that the generals led from in front, or very close to it, and were often wounded or killed as a result.  Both Wolfe and Montcalm died from their wounds suffered on the Plains of Abraham.  :'(


Virginia Virginia Feb 28

Tink, I saw that on WikiP - both generals killed - and had forgotten if indeed I ever knew it...will look forward to your video, goin' there in a few moments now...

btw, I am delighted at learning a bit more about the French-British Canadian stuff...when I lived on Mt. Baker in Washington State, only 17 miles from the international border, the ONLY TV station I received was CBC (Canadian Broadcasting). I learned SO much about the historic persecution of French Canadians, with sensitivities still persisting. I recall with fascination the persecuted Arcadians ending up in Louisiana to become our Cajuns!

Yes, the Acadians' flight was immortalized in Longfellow's Evangeline, which I remember reading in high school.

But something I learned just now is that the field of battle, the Plains of Abraham, was so named because the land belonged to one Abraham Martin.  I always thought it must have been named after the biblical Abraham. The 'Plains of Abraham' sounds so much more significant than, say, 'Martin's Plain'. :)

Virginia Virginia Mar 1

omg perhaps I will look at EVANGELINE again now, after all these decades!

Yes, the Plains of Abraham...even more so than The Battle of Quebec (I think was the other name?) It's amazing that BOTH generals lost their lives!

Evangeline is LONG... about 1500 lines. 

Virginia Virginia Mar 1

Well Tink when you are singing 'the forest primeval' (which is pretty much all I recall about EVANGELINE), maybe you need lotta lines...;)

Yeah... lotta birds 'n' stuff in the forest primeval.  Wouldn't be fair to leave any of them out. :D

Virginia Virginia Mar 1

Oh Tink btw, I had not heard the Ian & Sylvia song, appreciated it!

Yes, they did an excellent job.  The song makes me feel like crying.  :'(

Marianne Virginia Mar 2

Lol, Virginia, I was sure that you would like this expression.

:)<3.

Marianne Virginia Mar 2

Oh, T(h)ink, this video was not available and also on YouTube, the access was denied.


Virginia Virginia Mar 2

Tink, not meaning to give you extra jobs and stuff, but I could not find a link that gave the lyrics to the Ian & Sylvia song...do you have written lyrics at the ready? I could not fully understand the lyrics, and not given in the YouTube notes either...

Virginia Virginia Mar 2

Marianne you are SO right... "payer rubis sur ongle"...it's just a thorough delight, and I treasure it.

I think these are very close to what they sang, Virginia.

I went to see my love, thinking to woo her,
I sat down by her side, not to undo her;
But when I looked on her my tongue did quiver;
I could not speak my mind while I was with her.

Love, here's a diamond ring, long time I've kept it;
All for your sake alone if you'll accept it.
When you this token view, think on the giver;
Madame remember me or I'm undone forever.

Then forth went this brave youth and crossed the ocean.
To free Americay was his intention.
He landed at Quebec with all his party.
The city to attack, both brave and hearty.

Montcalm and this brave youth together walk-ed.
On the plains of Abraham like brothers talk-ed.
Till each one took his post and did retire.
Twas then these numerous hosts commenced their fire.

The drums did loudly beat, with colors flying.
The purple gore did stream, and men lay dying.
Then shot from off his horse, fell that brave hero;
We'll long lament his loss that day in sorrow.

He rais-ed up his head where the guns did rattle.
And to his aide he said,"How goes the battle?"
"Quebec is all our own, they can't prevent it."
He said without a groan, "I die contented."

Virginia Virginia Mar 2

Lovely and poignant, ty O'Tink!

You're very welcome, Virginia.  

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